11/17/2009

some stray thoughts, some opinions

some stray thoughts and some opinions-I

Late Busybee (Behram Contractor) used to write under this caption on current political and civic affairs of erstwhile Bombay. I’ve also used this heading for many of my write-ups on horse racing on IndiaRace.com. I’ll use it on this blog in future.

Let me start with IR.com. When Reddy and Sharan Kumar were there they have given me a link to my old articles which helped me to continue,but when they left and new group took over they have disabled the link. It was natural on their part. I was neither their paid employee nor had any obligation to them and stopped writing on that site. I do write on Racing pulse when somebody refers to me by name or I think strongly about a subject. I prefer to write on my blog now .

I consider opinions, suggestions, remarks, comments made by anybody as manifestation of that individual’s personality and character and take it in that spirit. I take pride that I did and could write ,on various subjects , related to horse racing but feel disappointed ,sometimes, as nobody interacts on topics other than betting and gambling. I do admit that betting IS an integral part of racing but learning and improving betting acumen is more important and 90% of punters are INTENTIONALLY kept uninformed by vested interests including experts. I’ll not blame bookies, trainers, jockeys – perhaps owners and breeders too, for trying to keep them ignorant ,because it helps them I the long run.

Why is it so? Do we still believe in the age old Indian tradition to pass on our knowledge to ‘most suitable disciple’. We have dozens of breeders who never talk about their success/failure, hundreds of trainers and jockeys who never express their opinion on their profession , though many of them visit internet regularly and have good knowledge of the net language. We have more than 40 or 50 tipsters who write on net, blogs, newspapers and race books but barring a few who write copiously no one(including me) bothers to analyse the failure and success of a runner from the point of view of enlightening a punter. Majority of pseudo readers respond – forget what happened today , think of tomorrow. These pseudo-experts forget one of the basic ‘principles of war’- more you sweat in peace, less you will bleed in war… All are worried that the population of punters is declining – affecting the future of racing but none is trying to improve the process to disseminate the racing info, curtail or contain the malpractices indulged in by owners, trainers and jockeys (in that order) to instill confidence in current crop of punters and attract newcomers .

Horseracing industry is comparable to any other industry in terms of ‘real’ turnover which in my estimation ranges between 8 to 10 billion US dollar. With only 1300+ foal born , 3000+ races run and roughly 4000+ runners running on only 8 racecourses ,every year the returns are better than any other industry of the same size. With 18,000 to 20,000 diehard punters and about same number of casual punters pumping in about 5 to 7 billion dollar every year in this game has increased the number of illegal bookmakers and their cronies, helpers and pseudo experts and drastically has decreased the number of legal bookmakers and reduced the amount invested on legalized betting. Why should a ‘sane’ punter pay 26% when he can get the ‘same’ return at 10%. He also saves tax on winnings above Rs. 2500/-

Sometimes , I get a feeling that there are some vested interests in RWITC –who are connected indirectly or perhaps directly with the illegal bookmakers of western India . I don’t find any reason for their failure, when BTC could convince their Government and increase its turnover from 100 crore to 1000 crore in 10 years , why RWITC bigwigs fail to convince its rulers and allow its turn over to stagnate at the same level during last 10 years. Do we accept the assumption that ‘black money’ component in western India racing is more powerful than the men who control the racing there?

Who can provide a satisfactory answer to this question? I can not. Can anyone of you who read this piece is able to do that? Try...

8 comments:

Anonymous said...

I am not even happy paying the 9% tax, why should I, if I win giving full tax and I bet from money I payed for already next race I have to pay tax again thats quite absurd. Think of it as paying excise tax recursively, makes sense???.

I have been gambling on various sports including UK/US races thanks to betfair, there I have to pay nominal fee of 5% tax, that too only on my winnings and if my bet loses I have to pay nothing.

Even in Share Market you pay taxes even if u lose that doesn't sound something great does it???

Pelikano said...

I am not from Mumbai so hard to comment on RWITC, however if you like to analyze the loss / win it will be a tough task, bcoz we are not sure whether the horse is pulled intentionally or it lost for valid reason. People will be interested on pedigree while we have derby but after that racing as usual.

On the tax which we pay upfront to bookies I do not have much to comment, but on tote for sure. Race club has to pay the tax to the govt from total pool. for example if the pool is 10k then they need to pay around 2k to govt (may be not exact %), so where is the component to charge the punter? Punter should be free to wage / bet what ever he wants with out the 2500rs limit.

Aswin Patel said...

Kaushik Saab, Horse racing Industry in Western India, actually all over India is akin to the Film Industry, more Glamor and no Substance. Here I find Ego's ruling the roost and of course no one wants to come out clean as there would be a conflict of interests. Maybe the time is right for someone like M.K.Gandhi to come and lead the people of India ( or R W I T C ) to make the correct decisions for the generations to come.
BTC has and slowly we see in Hyderabad the TOTE collection creep up mirroring the book odds which in the case of Bombay is pathetic.
As for the Post Mortem of any race , we can all agree to disagree on the reasons of failure or success as LONG AS THEY ARE VALID and have some truth in them, for example one person may think the Jockey timed his move late,( intentionally or unintentionally ) , some one may think the horse warmed up late , or the distance was sharp Etc.

chanakya said...

It is surprising to receive such thought provoking responses on a blog. It also strengthens my resolve that we must try to consider and solve a problem collectively .

Anonymous,
Your first paragraph gives me an insight in your thought process. You are lucky that you can use Betfair to your benefit but we can not use this facility. Paying 5% tax is ideal- no one should grudge it , even 9 to 10% may be tolerable but ‘giving away’ 26% of your money will not be acceptable to anyone who has a clear understanding of any risky venture ,including horseracing. Only immature, illogical and ‘get rich quick’ impatient gamblers do that and will continue doing that. I Wish you good luck .

Pelikano,
I must admit that I was not very clear in my opinions and thoughts ,partly because I thought that everyone is as passionate about racing as I am! I’ve added too many topics in one sentence!
I’m from Mumbai but I keep in touch with all racing centers though I don’t speak about most of them.
My first point was denial of information to punters by vested interests. to keep them ignorant.
Second point was - nobody wants to share knowledge with others.
Third point was nobody has guts to dissent openly .
4th point was ,a labour intensive industry has no ‘godfather’ or well wisher.
Fifth point was that RWITC has made no effort to reduce tax on ordinary punter.
Lastly, though most of racecourses charge only 10% on win/place betting they deduct 35 to 45% from tanala pool, jackpot ad many other pools and these pools are their main ‘source of income’- from punters
There are many more scattered observations but do they matter? I don’t think.

Dear Aswin bhai,
You have raised many questions that I can answer in this response . Some day in an article I’ll do that.
Horse racing is a very serious game and is a ‘labor intensive’ game or sport or activity and the fluctuations in its ‘fortune’ affects millions in the world (developed, developing and underdeveloped), unlike the people connected with ,say – cricket, tennis, soccer or any other popular game where legal/illegal betting turnover is much more than horseracing but the human beings affected are much less. I’m not counting gamblers in this case. They are far less in number than those who bet on horserace , though they bet many times more! They belong to a different breed, class and category.

Yes, you are correct that like film industry , horseracing industry has no substance . Coming out clean is not the issue – no one is clean , because “ kajar ki kothri main kitno hi ‘sayano’ jaye ek rekh lage hai , to ek rekh lage hai” is a Hindi proverb. But even with a blemish (rekh) people can help a ‘cause’. MK Gandhi, though a human was a cause – people followed him and the ‘cause’ overlooking his human weaknesses and he was able to motivate and deliver.
My point or the ‘bone of contention’ was and still is that while BTC can convince its ‘rulers’ why RWITC fails continuously to convince these ‘babus’ of government to reduce the tax burden on the common punter and ‘improve’ its turnover . BTC has done it HRC has also proved it by improved tote turnover. Why RWITC lags behind these ‘upstarts’ makes me uneasy and uncomfortable.
Postmortem of a race is a different issue and I’ll take it in an article some other time because that is a weapon most of clever experts keep under cover, protected and invisible - to use at an opportune time. Time has come to stop and I am closing for the day.
Regards,

chanakya

Easwaran said...

beloved friends
it is simply great to be here with you all, what a wonderful views each has his own but relevant to the racing, punting,
as long as the govt has colored view
nothing can be done.
the rulers of this country looks down on racing as untouchables
the govt permits "stock market"
which is nothing but legalized gamble by the educated mass.
the battle between greed and fear
that drives the market
nothing else
the highest court has given a verdict to horse racing as the game of skill not a gambling
yet the income tax department
is collecting tax to the tune of 33% on winning more than Rs 2500 dividend
a pittance money today if one takes the rate of inflation
in fact i write to the gentle soul who has posted saying that he is a player in betfair.(Anonymous)
i may be permitted to respond to him
that betfair.is now charing a premium charge of 20% on regular successful winners
apart from 5 % commission
for their services

it is not tax
as reported
my friend
by the way are you from india or away from india
since the indian govt permits a stock market player to open an account to trade online on other markets
and an indian is permitted to buy property in foreign land
where as an indian
is not permitted to open an account for playing horse racing or other sport betting
strange but true
i request our great minds who come here to answer me
it includes the Anonymous betfair player too
is it possible to open an account with any betting exchange
like
betfair, betdaq,
it is the flexibility of these exchanges that adds great value
where one can lay as well as back the chosen play

i request the viewers and the owner of this great blog to pour in their thoughts
on this topic
of opening an account with online
betting exchanges
pl feel free to post
thanks
cheers
easwaran
bangalore

Anonymous said...

Dear Easwaran,

You are allowed to use Betfair/Betdaq and many more online betting portals, the only problem seems to be is sending foreign currency into their accounts. I am living in India and am happily punting with Betfair though, its my NRI relative who deposits $$$ for me.

But I presume recently Neteller and clickandbuy are two companies that take cash deposit in Rs and will convert in $$$ when u want to send to betfair etc. Though rate of exchange may be high but it may not be more that 2-3% loss.
You can open account on Neteller and deposit cash in their account in a bank, I dont remember name of bank maybe its ABNAmro bank, that you can find out

Cheers

Easwaran said...

My beloved betfair trader
greetings and many thanks for your response.i really appreciate your response.
my friend no one can deposit money to betfair account except their own.
if your NRI relative who has opened an account for himself by depositing from his bank account it is fine
if you have opened an account with betfair. then it should be from your bank account.or you can deposit from money bookers account
Betfair or betdaq will ask for your age proof and address proof
it is quite interesting but some times nagging problem to get your account activated
you can activate for uk , usa, ireland and for Australia you need to activate further
my girl friend has opened an account in her name and i operate it to trade
that is the way as it is
any way i will inquire with ABNAmro bank
once again thanks
you are most welcome to send a mail
to me
i hope our blog owner permits this
bbliss47atgmaildotcom
is email
please do send a mail to me
it will be useful for both of us
if you live in bangalore it will be worth while to meet
thanks friend
wishing you happy trading
easwaran
bangalroe

chanakya said...

Easwaran,
pl do not use this blog for activities not allowed by authorities.hope you understand.
chanakya