Many youngsters - ‘covered’ abroad but born in India ,are doing pretty well encouraging thoroughbred importers to bring more and more mares .Jacqueline, Versaki, Celestial Wave, Polish Patriot and Astral Flash are some of the well performed youngsters who would be prominent in coming classics in winter season 2009-10. Unlike previous years when Set Alight, Southern Empire etc. had clearly established their superiority
over the competitors, at this time, there is no clear-cut runner- India bred or ‘got-abroad’ who can claim the kind of invincibility and this is a good sign for Indian racing and though recently it has become a ‘norm’ that big races are being won by ‘better- priced’ runner – some of them do have merit to beat the favorite!
Aboline’s lucky win of Bangalore Derby , Mystic Quest’s and Messalina’s win- all Indians- in preparatory races for winter classics - trained and sired by different trainers/sires also indicates that local bred thoroughbred can compete successfully with all the ‘hyped’ foreign-bred, nay, ‘foreign-conceived’ imports .
I’ll take just one example – Mystical Quest’s win.
Mystical Quest (Placerville-Free Radical) has beaten Celestial Wave(Orpen-Just Heavens Gate) , a got abroad (not exactly), favorite in Mysore 1000Guiness . How an
Indian thoroughbred(TB ) can beat a ‘fashionably or impeccably bred’ foreigner ? Beats the imagination of many who do not try to take all the factors (parameters) in correct perspective.
Let me start with the facts first.
Mystical Quest( MQ) did not look a frontline contender of MAM’s ‘fighters’ till she ran in Bangalore summer Guinness trial. She ran uninterested (-6L) till bend and realizing at 300/250m that her stable mate is beaten – Imran Khan pushed her hard and she did take over lead momentarily at 100m but was beaten by Jacqueline and Gypsy Magic at the winning post . Then she beat Sprint Star in a fight – with weight advantage , but just one second less than the course record. No big deal – many will say.
Celestial Wave (CW) an import did very well in summer –winning a 1400 race in 1m 25.5s. but her sire is Orpen and the dam is Just Heavens Gate(JHG) and both are ‘classified’ as sprinters. Please note that classified is in inverted commas , meaning thereby that I’ve my reservations on this opinion of ‘experts’ . As I’m no expert – till date no one has said that , I’ve to qualify my statements with these words! Therefore, let us have a look at Orpen – the sire and JHG – the dam of Celestial Wave(CW) .
Orpen (Roman No. 8-7-17-1-1) born in USA(Kentucky- Mecca of most of the successful sires) ran his races in Ireland and France and was retired to stud only after 6 runs though he won more than 1 lakh British Pounds in stakes money. His runs/wins were below a mile and he was termed a sprinter, because in his first 3 generations he has the blood (genes)of sprinter/miler But 4th. generation ancestors Tom Rolfe(USA) and Herberger (France) do provide a few strains of stamina . Many of Orpen’s ‘bachhas’ did well upto a mile! His sire Lure was a confirmed miler in US but his dam Bonita Francita had the staying blood and to top it all had Natalma -dam of Northern Dancer as her grand dam! Breeders will pay a fortune for Natalma’s genes because Northern Dancer’s are readily available .
Just Heavens Gate(JHG) – was a pure sprinter , though a daughter of Slip Anchor who won Epsom Derby and Shirley Heights sire of Slip Anchor and Mill Reef grand sire of Slip Anchor had also won the Epsom Derby – but JHG was and is termed a sprinter ! This is what breeding is . Let us see what her other progeny bring out on the racing scene in next few years .
But with all this blah blah or blabber what I actually want to say? Perhaps only this- that man proposes, nature finally disposes…
Whatever , permutations and combinations the breeders try , finally the will of nature prevails and the common perception that a sprinter sire when mated with a sprinter dam will produce a sprinter or at the most a miler proves true most of the time. And Celestial Wave a product of this combination proved this when she has won a 1400m race in very good time but lost a mile race.
This was from breeding and pedigree point of view , but the past performance which is readily available to even an ordinary punter we can safely say that Mystic Quest was better than Celestial Wave. How can we prove it? Let us try. Watch the run of MQ in Bangalore summer race no 77 and Mysore Monsoon race no 12 .In race no 77 she joined front runners but lost to better Gypsy Magic and Jacqueline but in race no 12 she ran 1600m in just 1 second short of course record ! Pedigree, breeding and past performance gives her the credence to beat a ’better bred’ foreign import and that is all I want to say.
In 1940’s an American used similar words : ‘when local bred beat foreign imports many times – why do we import them’ I echo same sentiments , but with a qualifying remark – we should import to improve the Indian breed . How do we do that is for the breeders to think, because I'm neither a breeder nor connected with them ...
9/08/2009
9/06/2009
opinion for the day
Riding fantasy and Titan should win.
Mr Greedy can cause an upset
Fleet Indian In Hyderabad 2000G is better than others
Mr Greedy can cause an upset
Fleet Indian In Hyderabad 2000G is better than others
9/05/2009
opinion for the day
River Blossom should win her race and Saltoro is my choice in a very competitive race.
Antonios should be able to win the cup.
chanakya
Antonios should be able to win the cup.
chanakya
9/04/2009
9/03/2009
some stray thoughts...
Some stray thoughts and some opinions – all my own…
Long ago , pre-independence days my English teacher – an Englishman used to quote some proverbs some of which ,I can not forget , even today. One of them intrigued most of us at that age and that was : ‘Sun never sets on English Empire’ . we hardly knew how big our own country was – knowing about British Empire was out of our comprehension and like most obedient student we used to nod our head in agreement with all his sayings and opinions…
Independence came , time passed- school to college to University to real time world – where truth could become a causality and pretensions become a norm evolved as a life pattern.
Sun never sets on (or in) British empire – though a proverb, but was a Universal truth till US and Canada wriggled out of it before 1850AD, a part of Latin America was still under the hegemony of England and though we did not know the meaning of longitudes and latitudes at that time my teacher was still correct- though not technically, but euphemistically.
This brings me to another controversial issue – horses are not machines. Almost 90% of race goers believe that , horses are not machines. I don’t accept it.
British people have given many standards to the world – pound(to measure weight and a unit of money) , Ounce, inch, foot, yard and of course horse power- a unit to a measure the power or energy or work done or force. I don’t like to become technically very correct , because I’m not writing a scientific research paper!
They used this word or ‘unit’ to measure or calculate power of machines, steam engines and many other mechanically moving objects(machines) by using a feature – a standard output of an animal called horse. I’ll not talk physics or science but will emphasize only the fact that they discovered that a horse ( farm horse or standard bred or andulician or a thoroughbred – they were just evolving at that time) produces an output of ’energy’ which is measurable and almost constant , to be used as a standard to measure power, energy . Horsepower , was used till it was replaced by -joule, erg etc.
It is still being used in some British standards.
Should we call those people fools- ignorant,and immature, who used a horse as a standard to measure power and almost called them ‘mammalian machines’
Why do we say that horses are not machines… why don’t we accept that it is the homo sapiens - another kind of animal, who manipulates these ‘mammalian machines’ to fool others of their species…
Think with a cool mind and post a reply – if you agree and I’ll welcome a response if you disagree – but with a logical ,reasoned out response – not for me, but for other readers who may appreciate the fallacy or the wrong representation of a truth by me .
Long ago , pre-independence days my English teacher – an Englishman used to quote some proverbs some of which ,I can not forget , even today. One of them intrigued most of us at that age and that was : ‘Sun never sets on English Empire’ . we hardly knew how big our own country was – knowing about British Empire was out of our comprehension and like most obedient student we used to nod our head in agreement with all his sayings and opinions…
Independence came , time passed- school to college to University to real time world – where truth could become a causality and pretensions become a norm evolved as a life pattern.
Sun never sets on (or in) British empire – though a proverb, but was a Universal truth till US and Canada wriggled out of it before 1850AD, a part of Latin America was still under the hegemony of England and though we did not know the meaning of longitudes and latitudes at that time my teacher was still correct- though not technically, but euphemistically.
This brings me to another controversial issue – horses are not machines. Almost 90% of race goers believe that , horses are not machines. I don’t accept it.
British people have given many standards to the world – pound(to measure weight and a unit of money) , Ounce, inch, foot, yard and of course horse power- a unit to a measure the power or energy or work done or force. I don’t like to become technically very correct , because I’m not writing a scientific research paper!
They used this word or ‘unit’ to measure or calculate power of machines, steam engines and many other mechanically moving objects(machines) by using a feature – a standard output of an animal called horse. I’ll not talk physics or science but will emphasize only the fact that they discovered that a horse ( farm horse or standard bred or andulician or a thoroughbred – they were just evolving at that time) produces an output of ’energy’ which is measurable and almost constant , to be used as a standard to measure power, energy . Horsepower , was used till it was replaced by -joule, erg etc.
It is still being used in some British standards.
Should we call those people fools- ignorant,and immature, who used a horse as a standard to measure power and almost called them ‘mammalian machines’
Why do we say that horses are not machines… why don’t we accept that it is the homo sapiens - another kind of animal, who manipulates these ‘mammalian machines’ to fool others of their species…
Think with a cool mind and post a reply – if you agree and I’ll welcome a response if you disagree – but with a logical ,reasoned out response – not for me, but for other readers who may appreciate the fallacy or the wrong representation of a truth by me .
9/02/2009
new posts- specific topics
though I'm busy on a specific project- improving my handicapping system, I've decided to write on sometopics of general interest- which are:
a)stray thoughts and opinions on racing - short , one or two paras on current recing scene...
b)handicapping systems, methods and some basic info about them...
c)analysis of some promising youngsters...
d)pre-race and post race opinions about selected races a t various centers...
e)any other topic of topical interest...
readers are requested to make suggestions ,if they feel strongly about any specific point...
a)stray thoughts and opinions on racing - short , one or two paras on current recing scene...
b)handicapping systems, methods and some basic info about them...
c)analysis of some promising youngsters...
d)pre-race and post race opinions about selected races a t various centers...
e)any other topic of topical interest...
readers are requested to make suggestions ,if they feel strongly about any specific point...
8/24/2009
BABBLE NO II
Dear Mr . Gosavi ,
I tried to post it on your blog but due to its length it could not be accepted there, hence forced to post it here.
I would like to be civil with you though you have given no reason to be so, but for the last time I’ll ignore your remarks like babbler, stupid, incoherent and so on. I can assure you that without using any dirty, four -letter or abusive word I can also be very nasty with words, by using a very civilized language and format.
It is strange that a person Vasha writes at 6.55AM and you respond immediately, after 3 minutes only, at 6. 58 AM with a reply as if waiting for a response of that kind and to another anonymous letter at 11.44AM your response comes at 12.12 pm – 28 minutes later! You are certainly very sincere with some of your responders though selectively, and this must have made you very popular.
But I do have an issue with you. Your selections of words many times are wrong , inappropriate and misleading and shows lack of knowledge of the language you use . Example, Vasha says ‘ chanakya has abused you’ . Without knowing where and what abuse Chanakya has used you promptly reply within 3 minutes . though same Vasha fails to read –babble, babbler, stupid , incoherent etc. words used by you on a site , which perhaps he never visits – may be due to selective or filtered memory circuits ,very popular in electonics! Another example, take the word ‘lie’ which you have used has two entirely different meanings. What you perhaps meant, inferring from the context of your posting , was – to say or write something which is not true or to say some thing to deceive somebody ,etc.
What did I write about you , I’ll reproduce now – “Another point projected by a real expert was that the winner did better time in last furlong than the loser. Well, Dr. Watson, it is elementary because a runner who is 2 ½ lengths behind the leading runner at 200m has to move faster and better to catch and beat the leader and do better fraction to win the race! “. Is it an abuse,an accusation ,a lie or a truthful statement – I leave it for your readers to decide.
I thought you are a ‘real expert’ , but if you think otherwise I’ve no objection at all.
I’m sure you also know the difference between lie and lies and that brings us to another point – your statements only: ‘… does not mean I will let you get away with outright lies’
An amusing , provocative a bit uncivilized phrase or a statement without any substance . what lie or lies have you discovered in any of the statements made by me – could you explicitly bring out for the benefit of your readers…
To quote you verbatim :
"It is a matter of conjecture why Set Alight on this occasion, despite racing in leisurely pace, could not produce three sub-12s in the last four furlongs. The reasons, generally, are lack of class, health or stamina. Since we all know Set Alight is stuffed with class every ounce, it could be either health or stamina.If it is health, she may not race for a long time now; if it is stamina, we will have to wait for confirmation until she runs 12 furlongs or more against worthy rivals.
what is class? How you define it , how you prove it she is ‘stuffed with class’. Set Alight(rating 117) beats in 2m 28.8 seconds –Icebreaker(108),D Dynamite(113) etc. and gets beaten by Antonios(72). Is your statement true or a lie? Health is another point raised by you- she did 17 tracks in 30 days adding up to 27 kilometers+ before participating in Derby . Is it a lie that she literally ran a mile every alternate day to show that she did not have a health problem. She ran a 2400m race in 2m 28.8 s breaking the course record of earlier Derby runners – is this fact also a lie?
‘A new dimension is being added…’ . You raise a issue of health after 4 months of her defeat and want everyone to believe , without any iota of proof and want everyone to believe. You are fond of asking others to check up before they write anything – did you check up with , Pessi, Malesh(included), Zeyen Mirza or Vijay Mallya before you ‘ wrote this phrase’ . I’ll not impute any motive to you for using this phrase. I’ll also not call it a lie but let it lie where it is .
Then what is the lie? Where does it lie or exists - please find out and let your readers know about it. Furthermore ,Could you produce the data of last 4 or 5 Derby winners who have done sub 12s times to win the race. You have facility to find out split fractional times, algorithm software to analyse some or all ( I’m not sure) parameters and is in a much better position than me to help out your friends, readers and admirers . I’m sure you will not disappoint them.
I tried to post it on your blog but due to its length it could not be accepted there, hence forced to post it here.
I would like to be civil with you though you have given no reason to be so, but for the last time I’ll ignore your remarks like babbler, stupid, incoherent and so on. I can assure you that without using any dirty, four -letter or abusive word I can also be very nasty with words, by using a very civilized language and format.
It is strange that a person Vasha writes at 6.55AM and you respond immediately, after 3 minutes only, at 6. 58 AM with a reply as if waiting for a response of that kind and to another anonymous letter at 11.44AM your response comes at 12.12 pm – 28 minutes later! You are certainly very sincere with some of your responders though selectively, and this must have made you very popular.
But I do have an issue with you. Your selections of words many times are wrong , inappropriate and misleading and shows lack of knowledge of the language you use . Example, Vasha says ‘ chanakya has abused you’ . Without knowing where and what abuse Chanakya has used you promptly reply within 3 minutes . though same Vasha fails to read –babble, babbler, stupid , incoherent etc. words used by you on a site , which perhaps he never visits – may be due to selective or filtered memory circuits ,very popular in electonics! Another example, take the word ‘lie’ which you have used has two entirely different meanings. What you perhaps meant, inferring from the context of your posting , was – to say or write something which is not true or to say some thing to deceive somebody ,etc.
What did I write about you , I’ll reproduce now – “Another point projected by a real expert was that the winner did better time in last furlong than the loser. Well, Dr. Watson, it is elementary because a runner who is 2 ½ lengths behind the leading runner at 200m has to move faster and better to catch and beat the leader and do better fraction to win the race! “. Is it an abuse,an accusation ,a lie or a truthful statement – I leave it for your readers to decide.
I thought you are a ‘real expert’ , but if you think otherwise I’ve no objection at all.
I’m sure you also know the difference between lie and lies and that brings us to another point – your statements only: ‘… does not mean I will let you get away with outright lies’
An amusing , provocative a bit uncivilized phrase or a statement without any substance . what lie or lies have you discovered in any of the statements made by me – could you explicitly bring out for the benefit of your readers…
To quote you verbatim :
"It is a matter of conjecture why Set Alight on this occasion, despite racing in leisurely pace, could not produce three sub-12s in the last four furlongs. The reasons, generally, are lack of class, health or stamina. Since we all know Set Alight is stuffed with class every ounce, it could be either health or stamina.If it is health, she may not race for a long time now; if it is stamina, we will have to wait for confirmation until she runs 12 furlongs or more against worthy rivals.
what is class? How you define it , how you prove it she is ‘stuffed with class’. Set Alight(rating 117) beats in 2m 28.8 seconds –Icebreaker(108),D Dynamite(113) etc. and gets beaten by Antonios(72). Is your statement true or a lie? Health is another point raised by you- she did 17 tracks in 30 days adding up to 27 kilometers+ before participating in Derby . Is it a lie that she literally ran a mile every alternate day to show that she did not have a health problem. She ran a 2400m race in 2m 28.8 s breaking the course record of earlier Derby runners – is this fact also a lie?
‘A new dimension is being added…’ . You raise a issue of health after 4 months of her defeat and want everyone to believe , without any iota of proof and want everyone to believe. You are fond of asking others to check up before they write anything – did you check up with , Pessi, Malesh(included), Zeyen Mirza or Vijay Mallya before you ‘ wrote this phrase’ . I’ll not impute any motive to you for using this phrase. I’ll also not call it a lie but let it lie where it is .
Then what is the lie? Where does it lie or exists - please find out and let your readers know about it. Furthermore ,Could you produce the data of last 4 or 5 Derby winners who have done sub 12s times to win the race. You have facility to find out split fractional times, algorithm software to analyse some or all ( I’m not sure) parameters and is in a much better position than me to help out your friends, readers and admirers . I’m sure you will not disappoint them.
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